Tanks For The Memories

The Marine Corps has decided to get rid of our regular and reserve tank units. The idea is that we will be fighting on islands in the Pacific and that we are light infantry. Tanks are too heavy.

I think that is a mistake.  We fought major land wars in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, and who knows where we will fight again?  Tanks may be needed.

I propose that the Marine Corps retain our two reserve tank battalions. Low cost insurance for a unknown future.

The article below illustrates how well Marine Reserve tanks did in the Iraq war.

 

Marine Reserve Tanks in the Gulf War 1991

CWO-5 Bob Dart and I were discussing a brief given to MWCS-48 shortly after the Gulf War of 1991 by a Reserve Tank Company Commander. Major Bill Hammerstadt (Rest in Peace) had arranged to have the young Marine Captain and Gunnery Sergeant brief the Squadron on their experiences in the War. The Tank Company was from Fort Knox, KY, part of 8th Marine Reserve Tank Battalion.

One half of MWCS-48 was mobilized for the war, and some of us went to Norway or North Carolina, but only Bob Dart went to the Gulf. He needs to write his story down. Here is what Bob and I remember of the brief, written almost thirty years afterwards, so we don't want to be tested on these memories.

The young Marine Captain told us they were mobilized and arrived in the Gulf. They had the old M-60A1 Tanks, not the more modern M-60A3 Tanks. The Marine Corps received loaner M-1 tanks from the US Army. The M-1 was new and very much more powerful.

Before the war the British publication Janes Fighting Ships said that the Marine M-60's could not stand up to the more modern and lethal T-72 tanks used by Iraq. They said the Marine M-60 tanks would be badly defeated by the Iraqi tanks.

The Captain told us that the active duty command put them on the front line with their M-60's and told them to try to get through the first minefield. "You will probably get blown up", they were told, "and if you do, the active duty Tank Battalion with M-1's will come through and save the day."

But in the attack the Marine Reserve Tanks only lost the tread on one tank, so drove on to the second minefield, and took no losses in the second minefield. The Captain said the Iraqi minefield was ineptly constructed and that the wind had blown the sand away so they could avoid the mines. And the minefield was not covered by fire.

The Ground Commander told them to keep going. It would have been time consuming and complex for the active duty Marine M-1 tanks to pass past the M-60's. The Captain's story was that his Reserve Company led the fight all the way up to the road that led to Kuwait, then turned east towards Kuwait. He told us they met retreating tanks and vehicles and sometimes killed them with shots 100 yards away. I believe he claimed 35 tanks and 60 soft skinned vehicles. Something like that.

Photos are from the internet, not from the Captain's brief

I asked him now many of his troops had been tankers on active duty? Only four, he said, one of who was the Captain. 

I asked the old grizzled Gunny Sgt what he had done on active duty. "Do I have to tell you, Sir" he said. "Yes," I laughed, surprised that he was shy about what he did on active duty.

"I was a cook. In the Navy", he said.

Pretty impressive for the Marine Reserve to train an outstanding tank company from a bunch of different MOS Marines.

Excellent brief. This is the way I remember it, although my sea stories sometimes get exaggerated.

I can't believe that they have not written it up. Can't find it anywhere. It was a great story.

There is a great story written by a Reserve Tank outfit that fought very well with M-1 Tanks. They had very little time to transition from the M-60's to the M-1's but obviously did it very well.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1991-12-16-9104230141-story.html

_____________________________________

Sgt Major Tomaeno had a great story about tanks. He mobilized with 2/24, the Chicago Marine Infantry Battalion. His son was mobilized with him and they were soon in Iraq for the war.

Sgt Major Tomaeno saw a Marine on an Iraqi tank, and yelled "Get off of that tank. You don't know what you are doing. You will get hurt."

The Marine replied, "Son, I do know what I am doing. I am trying to get this running so we can use it." 

Sgt Major Tomaeno noted that there were few Marines in Iraq that could call him son. But the grizzled old Warrant Officer was one of them.

The Warrant Officer said, "The last time I was on one of these tanks was in Korea. But this is the last time. After this I am going to retire."

______________

Some good scoop on this link

https://www.usmcmuseum.com/blog/the-m60s-last-hurrah

https://www.usmctankers.org/

______________

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M60_Patton

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kuwait_International_Airport  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane%27s_Fighting_Ships

https://history.army.mil/books/www/www8.htm

https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/how-the-marines-ripped-through-the-iraqis-in-operation-desert-storm

During the 1970's, the 8th Tank Battalion was rounded out by the addition of Company A in Rome, GA (now in Fort Knox, KY); Company C in Tallahassee, FL; and Company D in Columbia, SC (now Eastover, SC). Additionally, AT(TOW) Company in Miami, FL, was activated October 1, 1978. Anti-Tank(TOW) Company has been recently reorganized to an Anti-Tank(TOW) and Scout Platoon.

The 1980's represented a period of company and battalion training exercises in preparation for the mobilization mission in support of the 4th Marine Division.

On November 26, 1990, the 8th Tank Battalion was mobilized in its entirety and deployed to Camp Lejeune, NC, for completion of its activation and for further deployment to Southwest Asia on December 21, 1990.

During Desert Shield/Storm, the Battalion participated as a maneuver element of the 2d Marine Division while providing company augmentation to the battalions' of the 6th and 8th Marine Regiments.

The 8th Tank Battalion returned to CONUS and was demobilized in March of 1991, The years l991 through mid-1996 found the Battalion retrog rating its M60A1 tanks, undergoing new equipment training and receiving a partial training allowance of interim M1A1 tanks. A trying period indeed, the Battalion continued to hone its war fighting skills, although training with a significantly decreased training allowance.

In August 1995, the Battalion retrograded its interim M1Al's, and in September and October 1995 received four improved M1A1 tanks at each site. In June and July of 1996, the formal shipment of MlAl Common tanks arrived at each site, bringing the Battalion to its current, full strength of 32 M1A1'S.

_______________________________________________

https://www.usmcu.edu/Research/Marine-Corps-History-Division/Research-Tools-Facts-and-Figures/Chronologies-of-the-Marine-Corps/Persian-Gulf-1990-1991/

https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/how-the-marines-ripped-through-the-iraqis-in-operation-desert-storm

The following was excerpted from this link

https://forums.armchairgeneral.com/forum/historical-events-eras/weapons-of-war/93864-how-well-did-the-us-m-60-tanks-perform-in-desert-storm

These are comments made by a number of different individuals and there is some differing opinions.

How well did the US M 60 tanks perform in Desert Storm?

17 Mar 11

You always hear stories of how well the M1A1 Abrams did against Iraqi tanks and armed vehicles,

but we also had quite a few M 60 tanks being used in that war, but I have not heard any reviews of

how well they did. They might have never actually run into any enemy tanks as far as I know, and

maybe they were not used in the front lines of battle,

but I'd like to know how well they performed if in fact they did see some action........

________________

18 Mar 11, 09:44

I believe some USMC M-60A3s did encounter Iraqi armor near Kuwait City. I don't recall the details

but I believe I saw one Marine comment that their 105 mm DU ammo had no difficulty penetrating

Iraqi armor.

Perhaps someone else can recommend a reliable account of the engagement.

Read this thread on another forum: http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?...id=5591&page=1

Someone here states the Marines did not use M60A3s but just late model M60A1s with add-on

reactive armor. The Army was equipped with M1s but allegedly a father of a Marine in the

4th Tank Battalion sued the Navy/Marines because the M60A1s were obsolete. Luckily the Army

had surplus M1A1 HA's and exchanged 54-58 M60s to the 4th Tank Battalion for no cost.

The USMC Reserve 4th Tank Battalion got the M1A1s and the 8th Tank Battalion used their

M60A1 RISE Passive tanks.

Although here they state that the 2nd Tank Battalion used 200 M60A3s in Kuwait City.

http://www.harpoondatabases.com/Ency...Entry2026.aspx

Desert Storm: The US Marines exclusively used the M-60A3 during the conflict. In early February

1991, two hundred USMC M-60A3s of the 2nd Battalion drove north from Khafji, Saudi Arabia into

occupied Kuwait where they met a larger Iraqi force of mixed (T-54/55, Type 69, and T-72) tanks

on the grounds of Kuwait City International Airport. This was the largest armored battle for the

Marines since WWII, and they won soundly destroying almost nine dozen Iraqi tanks with only one

M-60A3 lost. 

The defeat was humiliating not only to Iraq but also to the USSR’s arms export effort, as some of the

destroyed tanks were the newer T-72 which was supposed to be superior to the M-60. Despite the

commanding performance of the M-60A3, the USMC decided to phase it out shortly afterwards

anyways to achieve commonality with the US Army’s M-1 Abrams. Egypt also fielded M-60s during

Desert Storm, it is not known if they saw combat.

But here:

http://www.patton-mania.com/M60_Patton/m60_patton.html

During Operation Desert Shield/Desert Storm the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force fielded 210 M60A1’s

with ERA to support the Saudi-Marine effort into Kuwait City. These were the first tanks to enter Kuwait

during ODS.

Caption: "M-60A1 Patton Main Battle Tanks of the 1st Tank Battalion, 1st Marine Division, advancing

toward Kuwait City during the third day of the ground offensive phase of Operation Desert Storm,

26 February 1991."

Someone mentions that the 

I heard the M60A1 and M60A3 had different fire control systems. Also heard the USMC was waiting

or the M1A1HC version to equip their armor battalions with instead of doing it piecemeal and then

having to upgrade older variants.

http://www.patton-mania.com/M60_Patton/m60_patton.html

M60A1 ERA

Going into Desert Shield, the Marines' main battle tank was the M60A1 ERA (explosive reactive armor).

Outfitted with ERA applique armor, it was considered roughly equal to, if lesser-gunned than the best

tank in the Iraqi inventory, the much-vaunted Soviet T-72. During Operation Desert Shield/Desert Storm

the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force fielded 210 M60A1’s with ERA to support the Saudi-Marine effort

into Kuwait City. These were the first tanks to enter Kuwait during ODS.

The Marine Corps fielded the M1A1 Tank to replace the aging M60A1 RISE/ PASSIVE Tank.

M60 Armored Vehicle Launched Mine Clearing Line Charge (MICLIC or AVLM) is an M60 Armored

Vehicle Launched Bridge (AVLB)

The MICLIC system suffered from several serious shortcomings during the Gulf War. Engineer

after-action reports from Desert Storm concluded that units placed an over-reliance on the MICLIC

as the answer to all their breaching problems. This was due to the ignorance of threat mine capabilities,

poor MICLIC training at home station, and the general lack of an effective training device or training

strategy. During test firings the system suffered a 50-percent failure rate.

M728 CEV

During Operation Desert Storm the CEV proved unable to manoeuvre with the heavy force due to

the inability of the M60 chassis and power train to keep pace with the M1A1. Many manoeuvre units

simply left the CEV behind rather than slow their manoeuvre. Such was the case with the Mine Rake

mounted on the CEV. Commanders planned for their use as a part of the deliberate breaching operation

but left them behind once they began the pursuit and exploitation phase of the operation. C

ommanders were unanimous in their opinion that the engineer force needs M1 chassis' for heavy

breaching and gap crossing equipment. The M728 still serves today in the National Guard and Reserve.

M60A1 RISE with ERA Photos in Operation Desert Shield: http://www.primeportal.net/tanks/gre...60a1_rise_era/

So we have the USMC using:

1st Battalion with M60A1s

2nd Battalion with M60A3s

4th Battalion with M1A1s

8th Battalion with M60A1s

So who knows, maybe the 2nd Battalion got the upgraded M60s while the other two kept using

the M60A1s and the 4th Battalion got the new M1A1s. Seemed that the crews in the M60A3s and the

M1A1s would have to be retrained on how to use the new tanks first.

Join Date: Aug 2004

19 Mar 11, 07:56

Originally posted by Frtigern View Post

So we have the USMC using:

1st Battalion with M60A1s

2nd Battalion with M60A3s

4th Battalion with M1A1s

8th Battalion with M60A1s

So who knows, maybe the 2nd Battalion got the upgraded M60s while the other two kept using the

M60A1s and the 4th Battalion got the new M1A1s. Seemed that the crews in the M60A3s and the

M1A1s would have to be retrained on how to use the new tanks first.

Hope this helps.

This in part had to do with the tank model stored on the prepositioned ships at Diego Garcia.

Those were amoung the first US tanks to arrive on Saudi territory. Which USMC battlaion picked them

up on the Saudi docks escapes me, but I did meet the battalion commander several times, LtCol 'Buster'

Diggs. His story about arriving and standing up the tank battalion was 'colorfull'.

There is an article in the 'Naval Institute Proceedings' from the early 1990s written by a company

commander in 4th Tanks. It describes the transition to the M1 after call up (4th was a reserve bn)

and their combat in Kuwait. They spent barely four weeks between initial call up and getting on the

flight to SWA. In practical terms the training on the M1 amounted to 2.5 weeks learning the controls

and time on the driving and shooting courses.

I am just guessing, with slight support from experience with USMC vehicals of the era, and a few rumors.

But, it is possible the 4th bn got M1 tanks because there were not enough dependably running M60 left

in the USMC inventory. I dont know if 3rd bn gave up any for Desert Shield, tho the desire to keep

3rd Div components intact was a factor.

Last edited by Carl Schwamberg; 19 Mar 11, 08:09.

___________________

08 Sep 11

M60A1

Advance party for 8th TKBN picked up M60A1's. Tanks were basically new and still painted for Europe.

We painted desert tan and bolted on our own armor.

Pruitt

____________

08 Sep 11

Did the Egyptians use some M-60 tanks in one Armor Division? I vaguely recall the Saudis had some

in the RSA. I don't think the Saudi National Guard had any.

Pruitt

________________

09 Sep 11

Advance party for 8th TKBN picked up M60A1's. Tanks were basically new and still painted for

Europe. We painted desert tan and bolted on our own armor.

Welcome to ACG mate, hope you stick around. 

I have read that the M60A3s had a superior thermal imaging system in comparison to the first

operational M1s at the time, do you have much info' in regards to this?

"In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."

_____________________

09 Sep 11

M60A1

Thanks for the welcome. My experience was with the M60A1 and then about a year after we got back

8th TKBN transitioned to the M1A1. Can't tell you anything about the thermal sights on the M60A3.

Duncan

_________________

11 Sep 11

From what I remember, USMC M60s killed Iraqi armor with the same efficiency as the M1s.

I also recall, I think from Schwartzkoff's memoirs, that most Saudi M60s were unoperational when

he arrived in theater. Why? Clogged air filters.

_______________________

11 Sep 11, 18:01

How about M551 - Sheridans?

Did they see any action?

During Operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm, 51 Sheridans were deployed by the 82nd Airborne

Division, and were among the first tanks to be sent. Although photos that were published at the time

showed rows of Sheridans ready to defend against Iraqi tanks, they would not have been very effective

against the Russian-designed T-72s which comprised the bulk of the Iraqi Republican Guard. Their role

was limited to reconnaissance due to their age and light armor. It is likely that six or fewer Shillelagh

missiles were fired[16] at Iraqi bunkers; this appears to be the only occasion in which Shillelagh missiles

were fired in a combat environment, from the inventory of the aforementioned 88,000 missiles produced.

__________________

12 Sep 11

... I have read that thM60A3s had a superior thermal imaging system in comparison to the first

operational M1s at the time, do you have much info' in regards to this?

The TTS for the M60A3 was considered something of an emergency. IIRC Texas Instrument built

them on and pretty much exceeded everyone's expectations.

Sights on the initial production M1 were included in the contract. The government got what the specs

called for but not much more.

Consensus was that the TTS had a clearer image.

Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

14 Sep 11

T-72s were present, but hardly the bulk of the Iraqi Armor. Most were T-54/55s that were heavily

modified and T-62s. Only the Republican Guard had 72s.

And by modified, I mean additional armor and larger guns in some cases.

Those things were not even what I was most worried about. I was in a Bradley, and I had seen

vids of the Iraqi Army using 57mm flak guns like Heavy MGs in Iran. Bad news for light armor,

and harder to hit with a TOW than a tank would have been.

Army used nine M60A3s but no one was sure with whom they were attached to or how they did.

Seems the M60A1, despite the manual sights had ERA armor and had better survivability than

the M60A3TTS despite the laser sights it had. Also the Marines were trained to use the M60A1.

There's probably other reasons why the Marines chose to still use the M60A1 despite there being

M1's available to use.

Fox Co Former SNCO Reunion

 

Greetings, we managed a small reunion, mostly Fox Co former SNCO's one Warrant Officer (Tom Sund), from 2/24 you will recognize SgtMaj Steve Allermann, SgtMaj Eddie Kaja, SgtMaj Gil Pagan, myself MgySgt Joe Brooks and a few others from Foc Co.  a retired GySgt George Ballman, former Sgt Rick Felski (1st Platoon).  

Semper Fi!!

Joe Brooks

Military Space A Flights for Active Duty and Retired Military - Free, Spacious, Comfortable

 ​Military ​Space A Flights.  Free, spacious, comfortable, room to spread around, blow up your air mattress, crawl into your ultra light sleeping bag, and wake up across choppy seas.  ​Beth and I were going to sleep under the helo, but ​the​ crew​ did advise us not to sleep under the helo, just in case.

One good deal after another​.

Beth and Craig - CH-47 Army Helo inside of an Air Force C-17 - The Helo was coming home from Afghanistan via Rota, Spain to McEntire Joint National Guard Base, South Carolina.

The helo was very beat up and shot up from its time in Afghanistan. Beth asked the Army if they were going to junk it. "No", they said, "we are going to fix it up and fly it another 25 years." 

We flew in CH-47's in Vietnam. Most likely they have scrapped them and the current ones are newer. I hope.

The baby emerges. Rotors off for shipping.

We did not go through customs. The flight was originally planned to go to Charleston, clear customs, then continue on to McEntire. On the flight the Captain asked if we minded going straight to McEntire. We said fine. The plane was continuing on the west coast.

But there were no customs folks at McIntire.  We were met by an Air Force Master Sgt. She said "You can't be here!"  We said, "Ahhh, but we are here."

She said, "You have to get back on the plane!"  We replied, " and go to California? NO!"

And we did not.  The Air Force did not know what to do since there was no customs inspectors anywhere and no way to get them. The Army came to pick up the old CH-47 and took us to the airport and we got off the base fast before they came to put us back on the plane to California.  The soldiers would not accept payment, but one of our guys suggested that we contribute to the Squadron fund, which we did, to everyone's satisfaction.

Thanks to the Army and Air Force for bringing us home. Nice trip.

Vote Early and Often - 2023 or 2024

Vote So Far 1539 Eastern Time May 25, 2022.

2023! is it. We are Go! Make your reservations! Byron and I each have 3 extra reservations if when you call there is nothing left. Look forward to seeing everyone. Woz did a great job planning this.

2023                    2024                            

Woz                    Joralemon

Dunne                

Wilkes

Sevold

Homan

Raclaw  

Brooks           

Homan

Braun

Anderson

Hullinger                                      

Det-4 Marines - Need your direction. 

 

QUESTION - We have planned our next reunion in Feb 6-9 2023 in Orlando. Would you rather push it to Feb 2024 to give some time between reunions?  Majority rules.

 

________

 

 

The comprehensive info above was developed by Woz and Linda for the Feb 6-9, 2023 date.  Byron and I each reserved four rooms each for Feb 6-9, 2023. We can turn a room over to you if you cannot get a reservation.

Wise Words Fom the Great Sage Author Wilkes!

At our age, I am not sure it is wise to postpone anything. I am hoping to be there next winter because I am planning to spend several mid-winter weeks in Florida. I am presently between medical problems at the moment, but who knows what my condition will be in February much less February 2024. I think an annual get together in Florida is a good idea since so many of our group live there year around or go there in the winter. Anyone who thinks annually is too soon can just plan to attend every other year…. Just my thoughts.

SF, JOHN

Welcome to the Marine Corps Reserve

Interesting article below about the current Marine Corps effort to keep good Marines in the Reserves when they leave active duty. You may remember there was little effort to do this when we left active duty. I knew almost nothing about the Reserves while on active duty.

Drew Davis and I have an interesting story about this. We were at Command and Staff College at Quantico. We came up with the bright idea of the two of us going to the Basic School and telling the young officers about the Reserves. We contacted the Basic School and set it up.

The Reserve Liaison Officer, a bird Colonel, collared Drew and I and fired us up. According to him, the active duty people thought this was a way for us to try to take people away from active duty to the Reserve and they were angry about it.

I was bobbing and weaving and trying to get him calmed down. Not Drew. He fires the Colonel up and they both get into it. He threatened us and stalked off.

This whole thing apparently went all the way to a two or three star. They finally let us go to the Basic School, but assigned another officer, Pete, a CH-46 pilot to go with us. He had been awarded two Silver Stars.

We were also told that our presentations would be carefully monitored to make sure we did not do any evil recruiting. We would be in big trouble if we did.

On the appointed day Drew, Pete, and I made our presentations. Drew told them about the infantry, Pete told them about aviation. I told them about the EW, Air Control, and Communication communities. I told them we told the grunts and pilots what to do, when to do it, and where to go.

We did not get into further trouble. And I think those Lieutenants knew a heck of a lot more about the Reserves than we ever knew.

Article about Marine Corps and National Guard efforts to retain good people in the Reserves.

https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2022/05/23/corps-prioritizing-a-program-that-links-active-marines-with-reserve-slots/?utm_source=sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=marine-dnr




Another Reserve story. I got back from Vietnam in June 1971 and grew my beard, started college, and forgot about the Marine Corps. Then I decided to look into the Reserves. I went to Glenview and found a Marine Captain, and told him I used to be a Lieutenant. I asked him if they had any jobs for me. He took one look at my beard and said no.

So I went home and forgot about the Reserves. Then I talked to a Lieutenant I knew from Vietnam, and he told me there was a Comm Squadron in the south side of Chicago.

A Comm Squadron! Ten miles from my home! Amazing, I thought. I wondered how many Comm Squadrons the Reserves had? Maybe they were everywhere.

I went there and got hired immediately. The south side of Chicago was probably the best location in the world for a Commo with Air Wing experience. I stayed in the Squadron for 13 years,

left for the Det and Headquarters Marine Corps, then took Command of the Squadron after Drew.

Woz and Eric Bennet were also long time Comm Squadon Marines.

 

Happy Holidays, Merry XMAS and Happy Hanukka

 

Vietnam XMAS Eve 1969

Twas the Night Before Christmas,

When all through the House

The Creatures were stirring

and shooting up the place

On Christmas Eve 1969 I arrived in Vietnam. It was gently raining. A very large hill loomed inland over the Danang airport swathed in bright perimeter lights like a halo in the mist. It was impressive and beautiful and frightening. There was a great deal of firing and flares from the hill and some of the new guys thought we were under attack. 

We ran into a large building, one Marine shouted, "They're really getting hit up there. Take cover!"

I moved to the Hill - Hill 327 to MASS-3 a month later and found out that there had been no attack. It was simply a "lighting it up" impromptu firex to celebrate Christmas. Of course no one would openly admit that. You could fire at noises or sounds, so the troops were firing on Christmas eve at numerous noises and sounds.

Nice and impressive fireworks.

Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night.


Photos source: 1970 Vietnam
http://peerintothepast.tumblr.com/post/71201382953/usmc-merry-christmas-vietnam-war-1970-via-seal

Happy Holidays, Merry XMAS and Happy Hanukkah

29 Palms aka The Stumps Sea Stories

 29 Palms aka The Stumps

Sea Stories

Most of us spent a lot of time at Marine Corps Base 29 Palms aka the Stumps.You can write your story by clicking on this Google Document. I will add it later to this blog post.

________

I was there on the ground during the A6 crash in the summer of 1971. I was actually a member of the 20th Rifle Company out of Rockford, Illinois. We were the aggressors for the exercise. I did not have knowledge of who the larger organization was. It is true the A6 was doing simulated strafing runs over our aggressor hill position. As I recall it was the middle of a typically very hot day at the Stumps when during one of the A6 runs it came too low and hit the sand exploding and spreading debris everywhere. I can still hear the horns of the 6X as rescuers swarmed the hill honking and shouting and looking for injured Marines. As I rose up out of my shallow foxhole I saw charred sand and debris going further up the hill. I don’t remember any details about injuries other than the pilots were killed. Scuttlebutt at the time said that they found the head of one of the pilots still in his helmet. 

At the lowly infantry company level of an independent rifle company, I didn't even know who 2/24 was at that time.  The 20th Rifle Company was disbanded in the fall of 1971 during a pretty significant reorganization of the Marine Corps Reserve. The most notable commanding officer of the 20th Rifle Company was our Major General Mitch Waters. 2/24 inherited quite an assortment of Marines during the reorganization. Marines in Rockford were given the choice of going “class III” or joining another element of 2/24.

I elected to transfer to the newly formed Golf Company in Madison Wisconsin.  The Golf Company was recently redesignated a rifle company from a 105 howitzer battery. I remember having to clean the 105s so they could be shipped out. Unfortunately, and a sign of the times in the early 70s, Golf Company inherited a nickname of “Goofy Company”. Through no fault of its own, this artillery battery was full of Madison, Wisconsin college students who had little interest in being Marines. There was quite an assortment of salty Korean War vets and newer Viet Nam Vets.  I’ll never forget the influx of recent VietNam vets who joined Madison hoping to extend their careers, became quickly disillusioned and left. It took a few years and some purging to square things away. I can’t remember when but at some point we were awarded the “Clifton B Cates Award”. I still have the certificate somewhere in my pile of records. 

Master Gunnery Sergeant Harper

USMC Retired

________

There has been a lot of talk and some reporting about how the US Marines were beaten badly by British Marines recently in a force on force exercise at 29 Palms.  The first story was propagated as many things are, with someone telling a wild story that gets everyone paying attention, which results in a lot of fame and money for the guy who made the story up. Whether it is true or not.  It was amplified by the Rooskies.

Russian Disinformation    https://www.rt.com/usa/539215-british-american-marines-exercise-defeat

The truth, I think.  

https://taskandpurpose.com/voices/us-marines-didnt-surrender-british-training-exercise/

Some of my sea stories from 29 Palms aka the Stumps

This memory is from a long time ago. I think I have it right. Some of you were probably with the Chicago Infantry Battalion 2/24 then and may know a different story.

On my first Reserve exercise at the Stumps, I think, in 1972 or 73. I was in the Air Wing and flew out from Santa Anna for a few days. It was, I think, 2/24, the Chicago Infantry Battalion in the exercize.  Seems to me we did not have any idea what we were supposed to do. I set up an AN/PRC-41 to talk to the aircraft in the exercize.  The batteries on that old radio were shot, so I jury rigged power from a radio jeep with slash wire. I was surprised when it worked. I was bathing the radio with water to keep it from overheating in the 29 Stumps heat.

We were at the airfield on mainside a long way from the ground troops, but I could see an A-6, I think, doing simulated bombing or strafing runs over the Battalion. I remember thinking take it easy, friend.  Don’t crash. His attack approach looked very steep and going very low. He would pop up high and then go into a steep dive.

They did not come out of one dive and crashed with an enormous cloud of smoke. I called the medevac and the old radio kept working and I kept it as cool as I could with water.  As I remember it, the two pilots were killed and some of the Chicago Marines were injured.

The story I heard, and you guys who were there can correct me, was that some of the Marines on the ground saw the pilots, who knew they had lost it. The pilots were able to maneuver the plane so that when it crashed it did not hit a lot of Marines.  Anyone remember?  I searched for this online and could not find anything.

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CAX   We were at numerous Combined Arms Exercises

I was commo for the air wing side of the Combined Arms Exercises.  We set up all the radios to control the air.  The pilots set up their IP (Initial Point) for the attack aircraft to assemble. 

 

They were working hard at staying low so that they could not be observed by the enemy radar. The idea was to stay low until you popped up, rolled over, and attacked the objective, and then leave low to the ground. They kept their IP low and behind some mountains and did not talk to me.  

Dumb idea.  Most of the ground to air radios were UHF - Line of sight.  The aircraft could not talk to anyone unless they were high enough to have direct line of sight back to the TACC or FAC radio Antennas.

The exercise was to start with a napalm strike on the first hill objective.  The VIPs were on another hill where they could observe the strike. The napalm strike was always spectacular.

The pilots stayed low at the IP point with no comm. They were not supposed to strike without positive ground control to prevent tragic accidents.

The pilots decided to take the initiative.  They figured they knew where the Hill was, and did their attack - low to the ground, pop up over the mountains, roll in and bomb the target.  They did so without ground comm control, which was of course a safety no no.

The attack went swimmingly, except they bombed the wrong hillbehind the VIP Hill.  

Our Marine PR Captain tried to fix the mistake by telling the VIP's how impressive the attack was. It was impressive, but some of the experienced reporters knew it was a screw up and we bombed the wrong hill behind the VIP hill instead of the actual objective in front of the hill. Oh, well,  no one was fried.

On the exercise debrief it was pointed out that 50 cal rounds were impacting within a meter of our Marines Fortunately no one was hit.

Spiders!!

I was standing in the mess hall line at the Marine Base in 29 Palms with the PR Captain who had handled the bungled napalm attack.  I noticed a black widow spider on the collar of the Captain. 

"Captain, don't move." I said and tried to brush the spider off of his shirt with the brim of my cover (cap). The spider deftly dodged under the brim and ran down inside his camouflage shirt. 

"Hold on," I said and slowly unbuttoned his shirt, which probably looked odd to the rest of the Marines in the chow line. When I unbuttoned the last button he did a war dance, slapping every inch of his body to get rid of or kill the spider.  

Then the captain said to me "Next time, don't help."  

The ingrate. See if I ever help him again, after all I did. 

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We had lots of black widow spiders at the Marine Bases in 29 Palms, CA and Yuma, AZ in 1967-68.  I had many of them under my desk.  I would periodically beat them down with a broom and burn them out a couple of times with a torch, but they always came back. But they were nice and never bit me. I suppose I should be sorry for being mean to them.

One time I was laying on my back on the floor of a room, with my head slightly under a desk. And there was the red hourglass of the spider's abdomen inches above my large and long nose. Startled me a bit.

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Another Marine Spider story. One of our Marines really liked tarantulas.  He captured a large hairy one in 29 Palms, California and brought it back to his apartment in Berwyn, Illinois.

Tarantula got out of the box and moved to another apartment. When they discovered spidey in their cupboard the residents convened a hasty kangaroo court and quickly evicted our spider loving Marine and his tarantula.

I also have a childhood memory of Marlin Perkins from Zoo Parade holding a large tarantula in his hand and saying, " as long as I don't make any sudden moves he won't bite."

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I led a small two radio relay jeep det at a CAX following the infantry battalion with a plan to roll in right after the infantry took the hill and moved on. The two radio jeeps would provide comm from the DASC to the TACC.  

All kinds of live ordinance was used. It is a bit disorienting in the desert. I was pretty sure the infantry had already attacked the hill. Pretty sure really  isn’t not a good idea when people are shooting real bullets.

We rolled up to the Hill and the three of us erected the big flyswatter antenna.  We had just completed our work when one of the  Marines  noticed some 250 lb bombs sticking out of the Hill. Oh, SHIT! They had not been there before the attack when we reconned the hill. So at least now we knew for sure the attack had passed by the hill.

I got our two radio men and myself behind a hill so if the bombs went off we would have just got our bell rung, not blown to pieces.  I radioed back to range control and asked what the chances of the bombs going off were?  The range control guy said they would probably not go off if they had not gone off on impact.  

So we kept the radio link working.  The only big danger was when we took the antennas down later.  Bombs did not go off.  Whew!

I took the same two Marines up to the top of a mountain the next day in a CH-46 helo.  We brought them enough water and camo netting for shade - it was very hot and windy. They would be up there for two days, with a radio relay circuit, connecting the DASC to the TACC.

We had everything set up and bang!  A very big round flew past of us.  I have no idea what was fired - maybe a 105?  We were on the side of and far above the battlefield and no one was supposed to be firing up there.

But it was just one round and we did not know what to do about it, other than complain to range control. So I left my Marines up there and flew back to the base camp. It occured to me that no one from our unit knew where they were except me. If the helo crashed they would be isolated.

Fortunately nothing happened and I went back up to pull them out. They were very fine young Marines and I was trying hard to get them to stay in.  But when they went home they told their wives what happened, and the wives said get out. 

We usually did our two week duty at 29 Palms in the Mojave Desert in southern California in August and it was hotter than Hell. There was a base order that said don't push your troops until they are fully acclimatized which took six weeks.  But our Reserves were there for two weeks and we were trying to prove to ourselves and the regular Marine Corps that we were good.  And so we went all out from day one.  You would see troops being medevaced on helos with massive sweat stains on their utilities.

We were the last unit to leave Camp Wilson on a CH-53 with two radio jeeps, one with a trailer. And we had a water buffalo underneath. We probably should not have been flying. It was so windy that the helo was swinging back and forth. The pilot stayed down in the valleys as much as possible. Several troops got air sick.  Half way through the flight I realized that the jeeps were not chained down to prevent a backward movement. If the helo went nose up nothing would stop the jeep from rolling to the rear. Fortunately the helo stayed nose down the whole time. Probably the pilot knew the situation, but who knows?

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In 1967 I was at the enlisted Air Control school at 29 Palms. Number 1 in the class included writing backwards on a plexiglass board so the air controllers out front could see the aircraft movements.  A very useful skill. The challenge was to hear range and distance plots in one ear, and coordinate plots in the other year, and plot them at the same time with both hands. Lots of fun.

I was playing for the 5th LAAMBn basketball team in Yuma later that year.  I was going back and forth writing backwards and forwards.  The Career Planning Lt who was handling my OCS application came up to me in a game and handed me a magic market to put a number on his T shirt.  I got the one ok, but then was not sure how to mak e. So I wrote it and I wrote a backwards 5. The Lt did not send my package forward. I had to wait another six months for a new Lt who did not know I could not write a 5 to send in my package.

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When I first joined the Det I heard all these stories about Lincoln Town Cars and the good life on exercises.  My first was at the Stumps where we worked all night on a Steel Thrust - no glamor there. And I had no idea what the Det was doing.

But the next night we were in Palm Springs at the motel pool. We were all in the hot tub except Bailey.  He did not have his trunks. We harassed him till he stripped down to his skivvies and jumped in. At least that is the way I remember it.

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We did a number of CAX exercises where part of Comm Squadron would support the first two weeks and then another part of the Squadron would support the second two weeks. I was in the second two weeks.  The first Det would leave as we got there.  A tremendous wind storm hit and destroyed all the tents, and messed up their Charlie uniforms.  So they flew home on commercial air in their grungy cammies.

Woz, Eric Bennet, and Bob Dart usually went together on one part of the exercise, and I went on the other. I know they had more fun and usually stayed in town while I stayed in the tents.

Do any of you have some good stump stories? Add them here.